the economy isn't growing except they have reduced the rate of growth in the economy to 1.2% so don't tell me his programs are working. >> hold on. [ all talking at once ] >> people know that. >> swing voters? how does he get the swing voters? >> i think there are more swing votes than eleanor thinks. if you look at romney's 47% remark, it hurt and persuaded people the wrong way. the key thing is not just saying the president has failed it's convincing people that romney's program is better. people don't believe that yet. >> he has not put out any credible program. he talks in platitudes, and because he is afraid of offending his base, he can't come out with a credible program because he can't say -- [ all talking at once ] >> he's got to put the word -- >> i want to hear pat. >> the word he's got to put out there, if you elect me, we have hope for a better time in the next four years than this guy can conceivably offer because of the mess he delivered -- >> you think that obama can put romney on the defensive? >> i don't think so. >> can romney put obama on the defensive? >> he'll ha